October 14, 1967
(The conversation begins an hour late. Sujata gives
Mother flowers called "Transformation.")
Two for you (to Sujata), two for you (to Satprem), and one for me…. It’s to prompt the body to transform itself! (Mother slips a flower through her buttonhole) It tries its best, people don’t leave it much time to look after itself…. It’s getting worse and worse…. The nights are shorter; during the day, the moment when I used to be able to rest is gone. So it’s kept constantly, constantly busy. Not very easy.
***
Soon afterwards
All of a sudden, yesterday afternoon towards evening (around six, or a little before), there came a sort of atmosphere of … (what should I call it?) a kind of discouraged pessimism in which everything had become lackluster, gray, dissatisfied. When you see things from above, in a certain atmosphere of totality, each thing plays its part and collaborates in a general manifestation, but there, it was like something shut in itself, with no reason to be except that it was. It was aimless, purposeless, with no reason to be, nor was it a special circumstance or a particular event: it was a kind of self-enclosed formation, a state of being which was obviously morbid, but not violent, nothing violent…. Yes, in which everything and everyone
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was without reason or aim, without any satisfaction – neither oneself nor others, nor things. And I was DELIBERATELY shut in it, so I would feel it. The consciousness wondered, “Why? What does it mean? Why is it like this?” And at the same time (you know that yesterday was the day of “Durga’s Victory” for those who worship Durga), so I asked myself, “Why does she choose to shut me in ,his state just on the day of victory? What does it mean? What does it mean? …” It was indeed like a factual demonstration of the perfect uselessness of that way of being, which had no reason to be, which could be turned to anything, any time, without reason and without motive. It was like the symbol of dissatisfied uselessness. But it went on…. I looked and looked at it, trying to find the slightest clue to the cause of that state: what, when, who, how? … And the curious thing is that it’s very, very foreign to my nature, because even when I was in real trouble, I never wasted my time being like that. And it went on, as things go on when I have to study them, understand them, and do what needs to be done. Then, at a certain point I said to myself, “Oh, perhaps this is what Durga intends to conquer this year?” And at the same time I remembered (like that, far away on the fringes of the consciousness), I remembered the time when Sri Aurobindo was here; every year, on the “Victory day,” I would tell him, “Well, this is what Durga has done this year,” and he would corroborate it. I would say, “This is what Durga has conquered, this is what Durga …” Every year, for a long time. And so that memory was there, far away in the light, as if to tell me, “See, do you remember that?” And I said to myself, “Well, this may be what Durga wants to conquer?” Then I thought, “But what’s to be conquered in this? It’s silly!” It’s a silly state. (Lots of people are in that state, I know, but it’s absolutely silly, it has neither reason nor cause nor aim, it’s like something that comes in without one knowing how or why.) It went on for a good while (I don’t remember exactly how long). Then, when I had seen clearly, understood clearly what it was, I asked Durga, “Is this what you want to do?…” And it was suddenly as if … a very strange thing, as if it evaporated before my eyes, pfft! … It went like this (gesture of bursting), and then … I tried and tried – the memory of it and everything had completely vanished! In one second it had completely gone.
While it was there, it was … yes, as if something without any truth in itself, something that didn’t rest on any truth. A morose, dissatisfied, grumpy state, and it was gray, gray, gray, lackluster, looking at everything from the angle of uselessness and stupidity.
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Then there was a sort of bursting: all of a sudden, poff! like that, and it was all over. And now it’s a sort of vague memory which I can hardly recapture, which no longer exists.
When it came, I said (laughing), “What a victory!” Then came the memory, the vision of Sri Aurobindo’s time, and the impression, “Well, is this” (Durga was there, watching), “is this what you want to vanquish?” She didn’t answer me, she smiled. And a few minutes later, poff! (same gesture of bursting), like that, I don’t know how to explain it. But it was strange, I had never seen that before…. The other times, when Sri Aurobindo was there, whenever she overcame something, the impression was of a power surrounding a falsehood (gesture as if to pull out a tuft of grass), surrounding it like that, isolating it forcibly, paralyzing it and taking all support away from it; but this time … it was an odd phenomenon. Something totally nonexistent, without any truth in it. And all that way of being was as if hanging over the earth, in contact with certain people, but as if wrapped inside a bag: you understand, it had no contact with the rest, but once you were inside it, impossible to get out! You were shut in, it was impossible. Then it burst all at once: “Ah! …” And nothing was left.
It was interesting in that it was the first time I was the witness of such a thing. And it was really as if I tried to feel, to touch it – I tried, but there was nothing left! It was oppressive, you know: you tried to get out of it, but it was impossible – you were shut in, a slave, powerless.
So now I hope it will have repercussions.
***
A little later,
regarding Auroville
Requests for admission to Auroville have been pouring in at a frightful pace these last few days – every day a stack big as this – so naturally, everyone must send his photo along with his request and say why he wants to be in Auroville, what his skills are, and which category he belongs to: there is the category of those who want to work to build Auroville, and the category of those who want to come and sit peacefully in it once it’s ready. And what a humanity, mon petit! … In fact, all those who come are generally dissatisfied people. Now and then, one of them has a light in his eyes and a need for something he hasn’t found (then it’s very good).
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There are those that weren’t successful in anything and are completely disgusted, so they wonder if they might not be successful here. Then there are the old ones who worked hard and want to rest. There are very few young people – the few young people are all people of worth (the ordinary youth aren’t interested). And the few I have seen are those who want to work: they don’t want to come and take advantage from others’ work, they want to work. So we’ll soon have a rather interesting team. But (laughing) with the satiated old ones, I … postpone decision, put under observation (Mother laughs). Yesterday, there were a number of them. We’ll see: if they want to be useful, that is, give money or things, or propose to do something, then we’ll see; but as such, the satiated fat fellow with his leaden-seated fat missis who want to come and spend the rest of their lives in peace, to them we say, “Wait a bit, we’ll see!”
The workers aren’t asked anything, that is, they don’t have to pay: they can come and work, on condition that they prove they are useful. But those who want a piece of land or a house to live in have to pay. And then, some have limited confidence (laughing) and say, “I’ll give you a little money right now and will pay the rest little by little, in installments” – those I generally turn down. Some are so eager to come that they send money in advance, and when there’s some life or something in them, I accept them. But to nearly all, except two or three, I say, “Under observation” – we’ll see how they react!
***
(Soon afterwards, regarding a photo of Mother at
the Playground in 1954, with the children and
disciples around her.)
That was when I declared that I wanted to be Indian, to have dual nationality…. The government of India told me it was a “memorable day in India’s history….” I wasn’t aware of it! [[But the government still did not grant Mother dual nationality. ]]
(Mother studies the photo) It’s amusing. When I look back at all those things, I have a very acute sensation of looking at my childhood, it all seems to me so childish! … Still in the illusion of the world.
And for how many years?… Since something like 1915, I felt
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- constantly felt – I was acting on the Command: the Command from above. The personal impulsion had disappeared. Since as long as that, 1915, and in that condition, there have been a whole evolution and transformation. And now, when I look back, not only all I used to do, but the way of looking at things, especially the way of looking at things … [seems to me childish]. The reaction was already like this (wide-open, even gesture), because great care had been taken to correct any ignorant reaction; the reaction was already very much like this (same wide open gesture), but it was VOLUNTARILY so, not spontaneously so. That’s the great difference. You understand, that sort of universal equality like this (same gesture) was voluntary, it was the effect of a constant vigilance and a constant will. Now also the vigilance is constant, but it’s replaced by the vigilance and will to be constantly like this (Mother turns the two palms of her hands upward, joined together like a bowl and forming an upside-down triangle at the level of her forehead), all the time like this inwardly, turned inward, as though each cell were turned inward, towards its center of light – that’s how it is. And now there is still a vigilance not to forget, not to flag – all the cells turned inward towards That. So all that outward play, oh, how childish it all looks! And now I do things that are far more childish, lots of little things that are, to the ordinary human outlook, totally useless and quite childish – but all that isn’t the same thing … it’s … (vast, supple, slow gesture) like the waves and rhythm of a divine Harmony expressing itself.
I might put it like this: at the time of this declaration [of 1954], I was still taking things seriously. At the time of the “classes,” when I spoke, I was taking all those things seriously.
Now it’s not indifference’ it’s … I don’t know, words can’t express it, because “detachment” wouldn’t be correct. I don’t know, there are no words.
There is certainly a kind of perception that mankind has given seriousness, importance, and … It’s obviously the mental structure, all that the mind has added in the world: first, differences in value, differences in importance, then a kind of solemnity, and, yes, a seriousness, an importance, a dignity…. All those things. All that is the mind’s addition to life. And now it makes me smile.
Like the need of a cult in people, the religious feeling, that sort of awe (what’s the word in French? … Fear, terror?) before the divine Power – all of that is what the mind has brought into life – now it makes me smile.
When people come and see me with that sort of seriousness, when
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they come like that, I instantly feel like bursting into laughter! So I laugh, I smile, I welcome them like old friends! (Mother laughs)
Voilà.
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