September 25, 1965
(Following the Security Council’s ultimatum, India accepted the cease-fire as of September 22.)
So you were right, in the end!
I was right … on what?… Ah, your message to Delhi: “India must fight.”
Yes.
Oh, they don’t understand anything. It’s a disgusting sight.
And as false as can be: they keep on fighting, only they are pretending not to.
They are all so pleased with what they’ve done, they are chortling with glee.
No, they’re not pleased.
You think not?
Yes, I know!
It reminds me of 1939, Chamberlain coming back from Munich: “Peace in our time”!
Yes, exactly.
But at the U.N., they are chortling with glee, they’re very
Page 252
proud of themselves [for the cease-fire]. But here, they aren’t glad.
They are especially furious at Britain .[[The British government and press (the American press, too) have been outrageously anti-Indian. ]]
Oh, those British …
Yes, and they are going to leave the Commonwealth.
That would be a good thing.
(Laughing) Yes, and about time!
The Russians have called on Shastri and the Pakistan man [Ayub Khan] to meet in Russia [in Tashkent], and it seems they have agreed with the Americans (the Russians with the Americans) on permanently separating Britain from Pakistan and China from India. They want to take steps to permanently prevent China and Britain from intervening in affairs here. They have means of coercing them, it appears.
Naturally, if Russia and America join together … So they have called Shastri and Ayub, and they are going – they are going there. So perhaps we are going to see something interesting.
The rapprochement between Russia and America is something I have been working on for years. I thought I had succeeded, when Kennedy was assassinated; and at the time, Khrushchev was well- disposed – both gone! One is assassinated, the other dismissed.
Now we’ll see.
If nothing comes in the way, there may be something interesting.
But one doesn’t see any solution other than military. The problem must be solved, mustn’t it?
There could be the solution of Pakistan becoming a part of India again.
Yes, but that’s not possible unless they are swallowed up.
They may come to it without being forced. This fellow [Ayub Khan] is impossible.
Oh, yes, he is impossible.
Page 253
Yes, but he isn’t immortal.
The mentality there will be hard to change. The Indians have missed the opportunity.
Yes. Ah, yes, this was the opportunity.
But it’s not their fault: it’s the fault of the United Nations; and the United Nations has acted from a single motive, because they were dreadfully scared of a general war – of course, this blocks the vision.
We’ll see.
But I believe in Kali, Mother. My only hope now is really in Kali: Kali’s force striking. I can’t imagine any other possibility.
(Silence) This man who is heading Pakistan doesn’t represent the whole of Pakistan. There is a whole part of Pakistan that favors union with India.
Really?
A large part.
And there’s nothing to say that if they feel protected, helped and supported, in fact by Russia and America, they won’t push for reunion. With masses, you know, it’s only a question of a current of thought: it’s not reflection, not reasoning, just a current of thought.
I don’t know, we shall see.
(Mother holds out a hibiscus to Satprem) Here is a monumental “Grace,” there are almost two together.
(silence)
Before the fighting broke out, Nolini had a dream which he has told me now. There was a certain number of people together, and they saw Sri Aurobindo coming to them. And Sri Aurobindo was bent over as if making an extraordinary effort; he was completely covered in a coat and nothing could be seen, but he was bent over as if making a great effort. When he reached them, he opened his coat, and in his arms was fruit (gesture indicating a meagre bundle), fruit and other symbolic things. Then he held it out to them, saying, “This is all I have been able to do.” And he left. As if that was all he could do: “All the feast I have been able to give you,”
Page 254
something of the sort. So they tried to make a feast with that, since he had given it, but then it created confusion and wasn’t pleasant…. When Nolini had this dream, he didn’t understand a thing – now he understands. Sri Aurobindo made such an effort to bring that: “This is all I can do.” It seems there was a sense of tremendous effort (laughing): “This is all I have managed to do.”
The world isn’t ready. That’s the worst part.
The world isn’t ready.
So then, if it is Kali, it means everything back to the melting pot, and with the means at their disposal, that may mean having to start the whole civilization from scratch again – how many centuries wasted?
What has come down to us from the civilizations that disappeared?… Nothing. Nothing, not even one exact bit of information.
All that, all this Matter all the time going … (gesture of rising and being swallowed back), making effort, producing forms, producing an element that can manifest consciousness, and then, brff! (gesture of being swallowed back) And again (gesture of rising), and back it goes again – what a terrible waste! A great waste.
(silence)
The whole night (not last night, the night before) was very, very critical, and with such a clear perception of the futility of the present procedure … and of this slavery that comes from a habit several thousand years old and more. [[It may be noted that Mother had a fever the day before. ]]
There was in fact in the body a struggle between the two tendencies: one that was by habit subject to the old movement, and one that was trying to drop that habit, with the perception of the new way. It was … it was extremely painful, difficult and absolutely grotesque all at once. And then, this body found itself to be a sort of battlefield, and that wasn’t pleasant.
And the body consciousness (which is now taking form more and more clearly), even the one that is subject to the old habit, is conscious of the divine existence, I might say (the existence of the Divine and almost the divine existence), but it still has a sense of helplessness, and also, within that helplessness, of a complete surrender to the divine Will: "If we aren’t ready, it will be like that" [= the dissolution]. And there is a part that feels ready, that understands and knows how things must be and wants them that way,
Page 255
and the two clash. It’s not that one is for the Divine and the other against, nothing of all that old business is there any longer: there is the complete acceptance of the Divine, but the sensation of not being ready – the sensation that the world isn’t ready (it wasn’t at all an individual affair, not at all, it was a terrestrial consciousness).
And you clearly feel in this struggle (which lasted the whole night and the whole morning – yesterday, I wasn’t in too brilliant a state), you clearly see, it’s visible that it’s not a question of a forceful will or … it’s not that: the SUBSTANCE must be ready. If the substance isn’t ready, a forceful, powerful action visibly causes a dissolution. And then all that has been built has to be rebuilt. This idiotic death, you see, reduces it all to nothing, and the whole work is wasted – what goes out is what came in … with a little more experience, that’s all. That’s nothing.
(silence)
If even one very small aggregate of cells could succeed in having the complete experience of transformation right to the end, that would be more effective than great upheavals – much, much more effective.
But it’s more difficult. Much more difficult. And it doesn’t cause big dazzling “events” that make a great to-do.
Yes, it’s linked to the general state of the world.
Absolutely.
And there really doesn’t seem to be any progress. The feeling, on the contrary, is that men, heads of state, human consciousnesses are getting tinier and tinier.
Yes, perfectly correct.
Pygmies. It strikes me how in twenty years all that has been growing more and more dwarfish.
That’s perfectly correct. But I mean that according to my vision (which I don’t think is mine, it’s not a personal vision), nights and days like yesterday (which aren’t pleasant) obviously give you a knowledge, and upheaval [Kali] still belongs to the old method – it’s accepting that the world hasn’t changed. While this sort of
Page 256
apparent shrinking is in fact perhaps the proof that the earth consciousness has changed and is putting pressure on what resists, which gets smaller and smaller, but harder and harder.
Harder and harder, that’s right.
As if all that’s conscious and living were being extracted, and what remains becomes more and more stony.
(silence)
The conscious perception of the two elements (the body is becoming a representative object; not just symbolic: representative), the perception of the state of consciousness of those elements that belong to the past, to the past evolutionary movement, and of those that are open to the new method, if I may say so, is clearer and clearer; it’s perceptible as clearly as, more clearly than external physical things, than the external form (this distinction is physical, but it belongs to the inner construction). Outwardly, it results in fever. It’s a battle. And not a battle of ill wills, it’s not that: it’s a sort of incapacity. And it’s not with violence that we will succeed. You know, the only thing that can triumph is this supreme Vibration of Love, but there is an incapacity to receive, and then (it’s a strange phenomenon), this incapacity to receive causes a sort of sifting, and it’s only elements that are as if watered down that can pass through – the Thing in itself in its true essence cannot…. If you look at it from below, you feel as if That refuses to give itself, but it’s not true, because when you ARE That (laughing), there is no sense of being watered down: That manifests in its plenitude. And see what happens [the sifting]!
And it’s clear (you can see it in very small details) that if there were direct contact, something would be as if shattered – it would cause something to be shattered. Yes, too abrupt, too sudden a change, like something that’s shattered.
There have been microscopic experiences, sorts of microscopic demonstrations; well, if those microscopic demonstrations, along with their result, occurred in sufficient quantity or sufficient number, yes, that would necessarily cause what, for us, would be a dissolution.
And that was an experience lived every second, for about six hours nonstop. Six hours nonstop and in stillness (not stillness, but the possibility of physical immobility on the bed), then the continuation for more than an hour after getting up, with the activities
Page 257
(limited, but ordinary activities), but then it became terrible! And I say: all, all the elements, whatever they are, whether they belong to the old movement or to the other one, all the elements had the same sense of adoration. Therefore it isn’t a moral attitude: the same sense of adoration. Only, some, in their adoration, accepted annulment, while others wanted the Victory, the transformation – it’s not that they "wanted": they FELT the victory: and the others accepted the dissolution. And both together … Very likely, if I had expressed that (I wasn’t in a fit state to do so!), if I had expressed it at the time, I would have been accused of acute delirium – I was perfectly conscious. And there, I mean, THERE, above the body, the most wonderful Peace one can imagine, a smiling Peace and …
And the fever is going on. Which is to say that I am very, very conscious that this is the maximum of what can be done to advance swiftly towards transformation.
This fever that everybody has [several hundred cases in the Ashram for the past few months] is the same thing, except that it’s diluted in an unconsciousness. But it’s the same thing: it’s a “cellular” affair (I’ve had the experience of this because I have been able to stop it abruptly in a few through a process of isolation from the general movement).
(silence)
Ah! What have you brought? Is the Bulletin finished?
Except for the aphorism.
What is it?
111 – Knowledge is a child with its achievements; for
when it has found out something, it runs about the
streets whooping and shouting; Wisdom conceals hers
for a long time in a thoughtful and mighty silence.
This is an experience I had some two years ago. What he says here, I had the living experience of it – half a day of living experience; at the time I could have told you very interesting things, but now I find it old, old, so old, far behind.
I’d like to ask you a question, and it’s linked to what you said
just now, when you had that fever while lying on your bed,
and above, you said, there was a wonderful, immutable Peace
Page 258
- what’s the power of that Peace? What’s the power of that
Silence? When one rises above, one enters a sort of vast silence,
frozen, all-pervading, but what’s the power of that silence?
Does it do anything?
That’s what people in the past used to seek when they wanted to get out of life: they would go into a trance, leave their bodies still, and then they would enter that, and they would be perfectly happy. And for the Sannyasins who got themselves buried alive, it was the same thing; they said, “Now my work is over” (they would make beautiful sentences), “it is over, and I am going into samadhi.” And they would have themselves buried alive; they would enter a room or whatever, then it would be closed, and it was all over. And that’s what happened: they would go into a trance, and naturally after a time their bodies would dissolve, while they were in Peace.
But Sri Aurobindo says this Silence is “mighty.”
Mighty, yes.
Well, I’d like in fact to know in what way it is mighty? Because you have a feeling that you could stay in it for an eternity …
Not for an eternity – for Eternity.
… without its changing anything.
Yes, because it isn’t manifested, it’s outside the manifestation. But what Sri Aurobindo wants is for us to bring it down here. That’s just the difficulty. That’s it. And one must accept infirmity and the very appearance of stupidity and everything, and there isn’t one being in fifty million (Sri Aurobindo told me I was the only one! … [laughing] It may be so!) who has the courage for that.
Just yesterday I was looking at this body, and there were no … the reactions that might be called "personal" were truly reduced to an imperceptible minimum, which means there was a sense … I can’t say a "universal" sense because it’s not certain that Matter in other universes follows the same law, I don’t know (I don’t know – I once knew: there was a time when I was in contact with this and that and I could have said, but now I don’t want to concern myself
Page 259
with it: I am concerned only with the earth). Because this is always there, too: the possibility of escaping by going elsewhere. Lots of people did that in fact: they went off elsewhere, into another, more or less subtle world. Of course, there are millions of ways to escape – there is only one way to stay, and that’s to truly have courage and endurance, to accept all the appearance of infirmity, the appearance of powerlessness, the appearance of incomprehension, the appearance, yes, of a negation of the Truth. But if one doesn’t accept all that, nothing will ever be changed! Those who want to remain great, luminous, strong, powerful and what have you, well, let them stay up there, they can do nothing for the earth.
And it’s a very small thing (a very small thing because the consciousness is sufficient not to be affected in the least), but the incomprehension is so general and total! In other words, you receive abuse, expressions of contempt and all the rest, precisely because of what you do, because according to them (all the “great intelligences” of the earth), you have renounced your divinity. They don’t say it like that, they say, “What? You claim to have a divine consciousness, and then …” And this manifests in everyone and every circumstance. Now and then, someone for a moment has a flash, but that’s quite exceptional, while “Well, show your power!”, that’s everywhere.
For them, the Divine on earth must be all-powerful, obviously.
That’s right: “Show your power, change the world. And to begin with, do as I want; because the first, most important thing is to do what I want – show your power”!
(long silence)
Ah, but this won’t do for an aphorism, it’s not an answer to what Sri Aurobindo says! No, I told you, I had the experience long ago. I remember, it was so lovely, so clear, so luminous, and I expressed it so well to myself (!), it would have made a very nice little article! But now it’s there, behind (gesture over the shoulder), far, far behind. So I don’t know what to do.
I think unless you have a question to ask (but you see the condition!), we’ll take up our Savitri.
(silence)
It’s a vicious circle. The impression is that the transformation cannot come about without a development or a general receptivity
Page 260
on the earth, a greater preparation on the earth, and at the same time, that greater preparation on the earth isn’t possible without an acceleration of your transforming force.
Yes, but it acts, only it’s an infinitesimal action. That’s why millions of years are nothing. This stagnation, for instance, exists only for our consciousness; it’s because the human consciousness, after all, measures everything on its own scale. For it, the history of the earth is an infinite – it isn’t so in universal history, but for the human being, the impression is of an infinite (he knows very well that it isn’t so, but that’s theoretical knowledge), so then, on this scale, nothing changes – but that’s not true.
Yes, but it should be done in the space of one lifetime.
Oh, that …
That will only be the last life – the last life before the transformation. That will be the life of the transformation. Which means that all that has been prepared for millions and millions of years will be realized one fine day, and when it is realized, the one (the one or the ones, whatever) for whom it is realized will say, “Here, we’ve done it!” (Mother laughs) Forgetting that it took millions of years to prepare for that minute!
It would be good for that minute to come soon.
Ah, that’s exactly the refrain I keep hearing all the time: “You say that the Truth is manifesting, well, we really hope it will win the Victory soon”!
I don’t know.
Sri Aurobindo, when I saw him the first time, told me, “The others came to prepare and left, but this time, it’s to ACHIEVE.” He, too, left.
He left. True, he told me, "You are the one who will achieve," but he never gave me … He is the only one who told me that, and he said it "just like that," as he used to say things, you know. It wasn’t something that gave you an absolute certitude…. He had that power: I would tell him something, and when he said, "Yes, it is that way," it WAS that way (something I WANTED to happen, not something that was), and when he said, "Yes, it is that way," then it BECAME that way! The first time it happened, it dazzled me. But that was generally about details. But when he told me, "You are
Page 261
the one who will achieve," it wasn’t in that manner: it might have been also his will to go right to the end of … of what was possible.
And I can’t say I am asking the question because that’s not true, I am not asking it, but the two possibilities are there (gesture in suspense). Well, there is no answer either to one or to the other. At times I have the vision that it’s going to be the end (a very practical vision of what I want to do), that comes, but against a backdrop of complete uncertainty; and the next minute, there is the possibility of going right to the end of the transformation, with the clear vision of what must be done, but a backdrop … there isn’t a backdrop of the Assurance that it will BE that way – neither in one case nor in the other. And I know this is deliberate, because it’s necessary for the work of the cells. If, for instance, I received from the Supreme the Order (sometimes I receive it clearly, as clearly as …), if I received from Him the certitude that whatever the difficulties, whatever the appearances of the path, this body will go right to the end of the transformation, well, there would be a slackening somewhere, which would be very bad. I know that myself, I know it perfectly well. So, that’s how it is: I walk on, without knowing what will happen tomorrow. Yesterday, I could have said, “Yes, maybe this is the end” (as it seems X[[ X = the Tantric guru. ]] kindly said to people who had gone to see him: he said I had six months to live, that in six months I would go – [laughing] that’s typical of his usual “predictions”), well, with yesterday’s experience, I said, “It’s quite possible.” And with that same total indifference, you know: “It’s quite possible.” With a quotation from Sri Aurobindo saying, “Nothing can alter the splendor of the Consciousness of Eternity.” That’s it. And then when this state has gone and the other one comes, you say, “Whatever does dying mean! What does it mean? How can you say that?” And it’s not that the two “states” alternate with … (how can I explain?) oppositions – it’s not that at all, it’s almost simultaneous (Mother intertwines the fingers of her two hands), but now you see this, now you see that. And it’s one and the same totality of … something … which is the Truth, but which is still a bit cloudy – it isn’t fully grasped like this (gesture).
This is the normal state, but it’s obviously being worked out, being built, taking shape.
And it’s very wise. The supreme Wisdom is infinitely greater than ours! In our enthusiasm, we sometimes think, “Oh, if things were like that!” (Mother gives herself a slap) - Be quiet, that’s all.
Page 262
We are very clumsy.
Yes, we find it hard to understand that Wisdom is CONSTANTLY wise.
We find it very hard to understand that the Supreme constantly does everything.
There.
And that we are just clumsy fools (laughing) who want things to be otherwise because we don’t understand the first thing about anything!
It’s beginning to be a little wiser here, a little bit. I told you, after nights like yesterday, you are a little wiser. And mornings … you are a little wiser. And a sort of very, very material sensation that it’s He … Because we think, “Oh, if it were for us” (we don’t say it like that, but …), “everything would instantly be just fine,” no? And that “just fine,” God knows what it would be!
Yesterday or the day before, I don’t know (I think it was two days ago), it hurt all over and it was a constant effort – an effort to maintain an acceptable balance; and then, at one point, I lay down and the body said, “Oh, (laughing) won’t it end? Will it always be like this?” Then it suddenly had the perception, “Oh, what a coward I am!” It was ashamed of itself. And it felt (Mother presses her hands against her face), like this, inside here, everywhere, the presence of the Lord – everywhere like this, a Presence! … A Presence of luminous power, but a luminous power that can be destructive, you understand! (Mother laughs) It can melt you completely – “Well, aren’t you content, do you want something other than this?!” Oh! …
It doesn’t ask for anything.
That’s what I call sincerity: if one can catch oneself every minute belonging to the old Stupidity.
And it’s precisely to make you see. I am translating mentally, but He seems to be saying, “You see, things are like that because if they weren’t like that, you wouldn’t have understood.” And it’s so true that there is nothing to say.
“You [the body] need this to understand.”
Page 263